Eleven months before the 2016 election, former Governor Christie Whitman sounded a national alarm about and referenced Donald Trump. a Politico article as a “bombastic fascist” whose “hate speech and exploitation of insecurities” evoked Hitler’s rise to power in Germany.

Years later, his warning has become political dogma not just for Democrats but also for traditional Republicans like Whitman and former members of the Trump administration whose own fears have dominated the news in recent weeks. Whitman maintains that the Republican party in which he grew up believed in the rule of law and the peaceful transfer of power. He condemned misogyny and racism. He didn’t base his entire presidential campaign on dark threats, cruelty, and wild slander. He did not swear allegiance to the cult leader.

These are the reasons why Whitman, 78, will leave the GOP in 2022 and team up with the former Democrat Andrew Yang Establishing the Forward Party, which has 120 candidates running for state and local offices across the country this year.

He also became an enthusiastic supporter. Kamala Harris running for presidentAs the campaign enters its final phase, it’s time to catch up with New Jersey’s former governor again. We spoke Thursday afternoon.

Q. You were among the first Republicans Warn of Trump’s threat to democracy. Now almost every day we hear someone else from the party repeating your thoughts from nine years ago. How effective do you think it is on voters?

A. Probably not much. It’s not about Trump voters anyway. I think there are a lot of Republicans who are uncomfortable with the switch; They supported the first term, never voted for a Democrat, and that remains a hurdle for them. Leave aside that our democracy is at stake, and it doesn’t seem to matter that Trump says unorthodox things every day. You hope that people listen to you and start thinking: “We should go in a different direction.”

Question: Still, this rise in anti-Trump sentiment seems like a compelling closing argument among high-profile Republicans who embrace your point of view. What was your reaction to John Kelly’s words? Atlantic And New York Times about last week Trump’s fascism and need Nazi general-like loyalty?

A. If people don’t pay attention to the four-star general who risked his life for his country and lost his son for his country, I don’t know what will get their attention. This makes Three important names from the army Those who served with Donald Trump and saw him closely (Kelly, Jim Mattis, Mark Milley) make the same warning.

I wish they’d all said it sooner. I wish people like Mitt Romney would come out and say: This man is unfit for office. Republicans used to stand for the rule of law; We were all about protecting the Constitution. These were our values. But we seem to have left this behind because of a person who built a cult around himself.

Question: What about other high-profile Republicans: Are you surprised by this? Governor Christie hasn’t he stated how he will vote this cycle?

A. I’m disappointed about this. I mean, come on, he won’t understand a position In the Trump Administration. This will not happen. Either way, I wish he’d said that. It will definitely send a strong message to people in New Jersey.

Question. Other moderate Republicans rationalized his words about Hitler wondering: Chris Sununu was asked if Trump’s public statements in German had changed his feelings about Trump, and he responded: “No, we’ve heard some very extreme things from Trump. It’s unfortunate, but with a guy like him, it carries over into the voting.” This seems to suggest . . .

A. True, fascism is acceptable. This is confusing to me. These people need to know better. It makes you ask why you would want to live in a country where this man was re-elected. What’s our problem? Many people have fought and died for our democracy, and now we are handing it in both hands to a clearly incompetent cult leader.

So there is nothing satisfactory from what I said a long time ago. I wish it had an effect, but obviously it didn’t. And this is very frustrating. Probably only half of the voters know what a fascist is. But they should definitely know what Hitler was, and they should definitely know what Trump means when he says he will do what he wants. The fact that he said “I want generals who will support me and listen to me” should be a red flag for everyone.

Remember that famous poem They Came FirstBy German cleric — “First they came for the communists, I did not speak out…” You say, “I’m not one of them, I’m not an immigrant, I’m not a Jew, I’m not.” a woman. I’m afraid we’re heading towards that point, and it’s one of the most unfortunate aspects of the situation. Some of the reactions to Kamala are people saying: “I can’t vote for a woman; I don’t think she’ll be strong enough.” I don’t know how he can show how strong he is anymore. He was a strong prosecutor and took on difficult cases. He has been strong at every stage of his career.

Q. It seems like it was easy for you to overlook the policy differences between you and him.

A. I met him for the first time last week in Pennsylvania and was really impressed. I mean, I already liked her, and it’s time we had a woman president. But I was impressed by how sincere he was, how optimistic he was about the country. I hope voters eventually see this. I heard someone say on NPR this morning, “I want someone who loves the country and is optimistic, I want someone who will protect the country and uphold the rule of law, and that’s why I’m voting for Donald Trump.” And you have to ask these people: “Where were you? What did you listen to?

Q. Is this memory loss? Cult loyalty?

A. Probably both. Since Trump entered politics, he has had a dark, dystopian vision of a country I did not recognize. And now he tells us exactly what he will do. You know, when Hitler wrote Mein Kampf, everyone considered it nonsense. Guess what, he did everything he said he would do. Project 2025 has the same caveats: Trump cannot disassociate himself from the policies emerging here when it comes to dismantling the government, mass deportation, and further restricting abortion. JD Vance can’t help writing the foreword of the Project 2025 author’s book. Try to figure out what kind of people Trump will put in his cabinet.

This is very dangerous. Consider what Trump did after Helen and Milton; It created fear that your land would be taken away from you if you sought help from FEMA, which hurt people and eroded people’s trust that the federal government could do anything. . So if they take office – God help us – JD Vance will systematically dismantle the government. And I ask people this: Do you really want someone with no government background, just a political agenda, to decide for you what’s safe to breathe, what’s safe to put in the water?

Q. You’ve had a long time to reflect on the future of the Republican Party that you and your family helped shape. almost a century. What will his future be like and how will this election determine the direction he will go?

A. If Trump wins they will probably still call it the Republican Party, but it will only be about Trump, followed by JD Vance and possibly Donald Trump Jr. But it will remain a cult. And if they lose this election, I think they will become a third party.

Question: So his membership will disappear as you did and his destiny will be a minority party?

A. I think so if he loses. When you look at our party Forward Party, The largest group of registrants are the unaffiliated, with Republicans at 25% and Democrats at 24%. And I believe we are the only ones who can make a difference. Until then, I hope this election cycle that people are not afraid to say they’re for Kamala Harris, but when they pull the lever, they’re going to do what I think is right.

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